One of the group of people who joined Emergent Commons in its early days was Bryan Winchell. He continues to be a very active member and I have had a considerable amount of engagement with him. Yesterday, February 17, 2022, I blocked him and two other members. I would like to tell my story leading to this decision. Writing about this helps me process my emotions and put some closure on what turned into an unpleasant experience.
Part 1 in this story was captured in my essay About Vaccine Mandates, posted December 22, 2021.
On November 23rd I posted a new topic on the EC General Discussion area.
Bryan Winchell & John Stokdijk
Bryan Winchell has agreed to join me in a written, open, one-on-one discussion here at the EC. We will do this in the spirit of communitas and my first move will be for us to get to know each other better. Thank you, Bryan.
Bryan, to start, here is a link to a stickman version of me. Twenty-five Facts. I invite you to share something similar. However, I see both of us as complex systems, a whole that cannot adequately be reduced to its parts. Hopefully we will have some fun exploring.
Bryan responded by publishing 25, err, 30 Facts About Yours Truly on Medium which I greatly appreciated. I was particularly impressed by Bryan’s public acknowledgement of an addiction problem that he only recently overcame. And I read some additional articles he wrote.
Bryan and I continued our discussion for about a month. We took a year-end break from this activity but neither of us took the initiative to continue in 2022. As EC is private, I will only share a few of my own posts.
Greetings Bryan. This morning I read How 9-11-2001 Changed My Life for the Better. I really enjoyed reading your article. The interweaving of your job experience and 9/11 was very interesting, meaningful. I admire your integrity and I have also quit jobs after discovering I worked for dishonest people.
Reading your article brought back to my mind the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 which could not have had any direct impact on you. I was 11 at the time and did not really understand what was going on. But to this day I still remember the fear I saw in my mother at the time. Years later I gained some understanding of the fear of nuclear war between superpowers.
Again, thanks for sharing, Bryan. This gives me more insight into how your mind works. While I do not disparage astrology, it has no significance to me personally. You and I are two very different people and I see value in understanding those differences. I do agree with you that vaccine mandates are likely to rip the country apart, probably more than one country.
I have read The 8 Valuable Lessons 2020 Taught Me and I am looking forward to your 2021 version.
A couple of weeks ago Bryan revived the COVID THESIS/ANTITHESIS/SYNTHESIS DISCUSSION. His post was long and I remember thinking, he will not just leave this alone. I posted a comment.
What I appreciate is that Emergent Commons, so far, seems to be a container that can hold space for both the THESIS and ANTITHESIS views. And hold space for both criticism of and support for Rebel Wisdom. And hold space for members who make sense of it all in very different ways.
A week later he again posted on the same topic and specifically asked for alternative points of view. I responded with…
Okay, Bryan Winchell, I’ll bite.
As a preliminary comment, as you and I have interacted here at EC, my respect for you has grown. I think you are a man of high integrity. You say what you mean and you mean what you say. I like that. I think you have good intentions. I hope you do not take your work elsewhere and do not get tired of our EC community.
Here is how I would like to frame my comments. I see the pandemic as a hyperobject, something bigger than any one person can understand. I try to hold my own opinions lightly because I know that what I do not know is much greater than what I do know. I try not to be too impressed with myself. I apply the same standard to you.
How much longer will the madness continue?
It is my expectation that we are almost at the end of the pandemic. We are probably in the biggest and last wave of infections, a steep upward curve followed by a steep downward curve. One model is forecasting COVID-19 deaths to drop to around 1% of the peak, a bearable level. Denmark has just lifted almost all restrictions and I believe many countries will quickly follow in the next few weeks. It is unlikely, but possible, that new variants of concern will emerge and this picture could change again.
I continue to be in favor of vaccinations. Annual vaccination for COVID-19 seems like a reasonable future, much like influenza. Generally, I view vaccination for infectious diseases as one of the great success stories of medical science in the last 150 years.
I agree with many of your concerns about vaccine mandates. This is a complex matter and much could be said. In summary, I am not opposed to all mandates in all circumstances. Going beyond this statement, I could look at specific situations on a case by case basis. But I do not want to spend much of my time on this matter as other subjects are of greater interest to me.
I think you know that I am a Canadian living in Mexico. The matter of the Canadian truckers is very personal and painful for me. I have relatives who have been captured by conspiracy theories and are involved. This hurts deeply and I worry about them. They are bat shit crazy. What is happening in my country is not pleasant to observe, but Canada, all things considered, is still doing better than many other countries.
How carefully have you studied the issues in Canada? For example, how much do you know about the funding issues around the trucker rallies? How well could you articulate the position of those who do not support the truckers?
“I feel like too many, perhaps even here in EC which I believe has sensemaking as one of its core values, are understandably weary of COVID and discussions about it.”
Yes, I am weary of discussing COVID-19 and I do not see much point in doing so at EC. But I am continuing to study the issues because they are important. Currently I am reading a book looking back at the last two years and this is a better use of my time than discussions on this topic at EC.
I admire your passion for holding those who abuse power to account. Perhaps that is the work you are called to do. What I am very clear about is that it is not my work to do. There is much hard work to do in many areas. Opposing the abuse of power in Game A is important but of very little interest to me personally.
"How much do they really care? Shall I take my work elsewhere?"
I think it would be useful if all EC members identified what they really care about, what really matters to them. There seem to be a significant number of members who align with you. I think that is great. But I think it is a mistake to conclude that those who do not care about the same things as you do not care about other important matters. I think this is an area where you and I have significant differences, but so what.
“I'm tired of feeling I'm spinning my wheels!”
What is it you would like to accomplish here at EC? I am here to build meaningful relationships with other members, including you. I am not here to convince anyone of the validity of my opinions.
Bryan responded with a lengthy post to which I replied…
Yes, Bryan, this type of engagement takes time and you are someone that I have time for. I very much appreciated your post 25, err, 30 Facts About Yours Truly on Medium which you did in response to my invitation to do so. And I appreciated your effort to put your worldview in writing, but I can no longer find it. I like that you express yourself in writing and I have read a few of your articles and I will probably read more.
Your fourth paragraph resonates strongly with me. We both want a better world. However, I would say that I want a radically better world and I want to play a part in making that happen. I think that is the yearning in the hearts of most EC members. That is what unites us.
One more comment on integrity, I think it is a core Game B / Liminal value.
Now on to Canada again… I doubt you will find anyone here at EC, or in the whole Liminal space, who supports the Canadian government. Most of us share a deep distrust of governments, institutions, corporations and other aspects of the Establishment. However, I think I have some understanding of those who support government, and those who oppose government, at least in Canada.
Here is my intuitive view of Canadian society, not based on research, merely my own observations. Like many countries, Canada is polarized and in a state of culture war. Very simplistically, let’s say that 39% of Canadians are in one tribe, 39% are in an opposing tribe, 20% do not care and are uninvolved with the remaining 2% being us, you and me and the others in the liminal space.
Since 2015 and the rise of Donald Trump, and with the growth of the power of social media, I have been observing changes in attitude amongst members of my family. Some have been captured by choosing sides in the culture war and, worse yet, some have been captured by conspiracy theories. They are ordinary Canadians and they are representative of many others who support the truckers. They are fighting for freedoms without realizing that they too have been captured by a narrative. Those supporting government are no better, also captured, but by the different, opposing narrative. In my view, both of these forces have been captured by fear and are being manipulated by those who use that fear to gain power.
One of the leaders of the freedom movement in Canada, someone who ran for the office of mayor of Calgary, is now in jail, which is where he belongs. Another leader is headed in the same direction. I see little in the movement which the truckers are part of to suggest that they stand for any more than opposing government. I will not say one word in support for government but I will also not say one word in support for the truckers. I think most of the truckers are being manipulated for nefarious purposes.
Now about the money…
A GoFundMe project was set up, Freedom Convoy 2022, with a target of $C200,000. Something unexpected happened as the project went viral worldwide and money poured in, over $10,000,000. GoFundMe stopped donations and froze the funds as there was never a plan for that kind of money. It seems that GoFundMe has the authority to determine next steps. There are reports that a substantial amount of the donations were foreign and anonymous, dark money, always suspicious. The names associated with the fund are Tamara Lich and B.J. Dichter, apparently very controversial characters of whom I know almost nothing. I have not researched this matter beyond media reports. It will be interesting to see how this story plays out.
As for the City of Ottawa, apparently they are incurring additional policing costs of about $1 million per day. The infamous January 6th event demonstrated to the world what can happen in these situations. I very much doubt that the City of Ottawa will get anything from the GoFundMe project.
From my perspective the truckers are not about stopping the madness, they are part of the madness. There is something about the Canadian health care system that I would not expect you to know. Under Canadian constitutional law, health care is a provincial responsibility, not a federal one. Going to Ottawa to protest provincial restrictions makes no sense. Something else is going on and, as per usual, there is disinformation on all sides and we will probably never know the complete, true story.
Finally, Bryan, I do not think protest movements are a path to a better world. It is, of course, fine that we differ on this point. But perhaps we can have a future conversation about this.
About a week ago Bryan shared his views on a COVID religious war video by Rebel Wisdom. To me, it seemed overly critical of David Fuller. I posted…
Is David Fuller guilty of the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy? Does David Fuller have blind spots? Is the Rebel Wisdom practice of editing their films inappropriate? These questions did not occur to me. But yes, they may be worth exploring.
I do not know enough about Fuller’s research or thought process to know whether it is flawed. Based on the Rebel Wisdom films I have watched, I am generally very impressed with how his mind works. Although not at the top of my list, RW continues to help me make sense of the world.
Of course David Fuller has blind spots. Everybody does. Everyone has incomplete knowledge. Did he land on the Thesis side because of his blind spots? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
What are Rebel Wisdom’s intentions when editing films? Is it to taint the message? Is it to create good flow? How can we know? I do try to pay attention to my own intentions, no easy matter, and I do wonder about the intentions of others.
Does David Fuller’s position align with the facts? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
What are the facts? I know of not a single case where in any significant geographical region there is credible data to contradict the claim that only a small percentage of doctors are unvaccinated. But there is no way to determine why they were vaccinated. So the claim that many did so because of coercion cannot be countered. So we cannot logically come to a conclusion using logical arguing from facts. We are merely expressing opinions. It is my opinion that most doctors were willingly vaccinated.
Fuller has invited people to Rebel Wisdom who have declined. I am unaware of him ever calling such people cowards, but I welcome correction on this point. I have not seen a single instance where David Fuller has disparaged anyone in an obvious attempt to strengthen his own position.
David Fuller is a member of EC although he rarely comments. However, in this case he replied to Bryan in this discussion and I thought he explained himself brilliantly. Bryan thanked Fuller but I was not impressed by Bryan's response.
A few days ago I posted a link to an Andrew Sullivan article, Between The World And Men, and specifically invited Bryan to read it.
Thank you for reading the article, Bryan. And for your comments. Now I would like to make one more request, that you read about MY Masculinity, making this more personal. If you have written anything along these lines, I will gladly read it. After that I think we can have some good discussion about these important matters.
Byran posted links to two articles on this topic - There’s No Crying in … Manhood? (The Post!) and Is It Okay for Me to Talk About #MeToo Now? - and I thought they were both very good.
Two days ago Bryan posted a link to an article about Justin Trudeau and I posted a comment.
As a Canadian paying a lot of attention to what is going on in my country, I have no fear of Justin Trudeau becoming a dictator.
Bryan posted a lengthy reply and what happened next surprised me. I was triggered. I had a very strong, negative emotional reaction to what he wrote. Once before I had been triggered by Bryan’s post, last year near the end of November. I had mistakenly thought that I had worked through that experience, had my emotions under control.
I posted one more time.
The culture war has come to Emergent Commons. This is not good.
With the help of some private exchanges with other EC members, I was reasonably okay a few hours later. However, I did make a decision to block Bryan. I am not interested in most of his posts. I am no longer interested in discussing anything with him.
I have been monitoring my emotions for a long time, probably since I was a teenager coping with depression. I have worked hard for decades at becoming a psychologically healthier individual. I have learned a lot along the way.
I know that when triggered it is somehow about me. Rationally, it makes no sense for me to be triggered by an American living in Japan. No harm can come to me. I know I am safe. So why do I react as if I am really threatened?
Like many other people, the past two years of pandemic have impacted my relationships with family and friends. The spread of conspiracy theories, growing polarization and intensification of culture wars have made interactions more difficult, more frustrating and less meaningful. I think I have projected the negative emotions building up in me onto Bryan Winchell. Sorry Bryan.
I am fortunate to have built some very meaningful relationships with several EC members who have been very supportive. And they are a wise group who teach me both with their words and with their example. All things considered, EC continues to be mostly a positive experience for me, a community I want to be a part of.
Since teenage I have been driven by a need to understand. In recent years I developed a view that deeply understanding each other was a key aspect of good relationships in a community. That has proven to be more difficult than I had anticipated. And other EC members helped me to see a different perspective, that we can be, just be, with each other without such understanding. And these members model this behavior and seeing it in action is impressive. But now I am somewhat disappointed in myself for being unable at this time to live up to this ideal.
Yesterday, on Medium, Bryan Winshell posted his latest article, Am I Too Stupid For You To Trust Me? The subheading reads, A plea for your heart from an unvaxxed, imperfect white guy. I am going to respond as if it were directed to me personally.
…much as I can churn out words, I’m not sure words are enough to bridge the growing gap between a person like me and a person like you.
No, Bryan, words are not enough. Even being members of the same community, which we are, is not enough. Perhaps there is an unbridgeable gap between us and perhaps that doesn’t matter very much.
It seems that to many, I’m stupid. Uncaring. Uneducated. And so much worse.
I have never thought of you as stupid, uncaring or uneducated.
Much of this judgment is based upon one action I didn’t take: I never “took the jab” for COVID-19 and, barring some extremely unlikely change in circumstances, I expect this won’t change.
I had the two dose shot of Sinovac plus an AstraZeneca booster. And I think I understand your reasons for your decision. And I judge you based on much more knowledge of you than this one fact.
Would you listen if I tried again? Or is your mind made up: unvaxxed=idiot? Have you already ruled out anything I might say based on that one simple fact? Have you already ruled out the whole of my humanity based on a disagreement you have with me over a medical decision?
I have close family who are unvaccinated but I do not consider any of them to be idiots.
Ultimately, I just want you to still see me — and treat me — as a fellow human. Can you do that?
Yes.
So, before I go on, I’ll ask again, but in another way: Will you give me the benefit of the doubt? Can you open your heart and at least read this blog post before you judge me? Or have you already done that?
No, I have already judged you. But I have not judged your worth as a human being. I have judged you in only a few narrow ways. I have judged your decision to decline vaccination and I believe I have made a better decision. I have judged your decision to speak against vaccine mandates and I have taken a different approach. I have judged your writings about the Canadian Freedom Convoy and it seems to me that you have a poor understanding of the matter. But I still want for you what I want for myself, that we both thrive as human beings.
And in the meantime, I pray that you won’t declare war on me. I’ve got no war with you, for what it’s worth; I won’t be using my blog or my podcast to rally people on “my side” of this issue to take up arms against “your side.” I see this war as a false one, one that’s, for the most part, been imposed on us, a classic divide-and-conquer tactic to take our attention away from the crumbling ineptitude of our societal structures and those who inhabit them. I’d rather write about that topic and what we can do about it, perhaps, together.
Right, Bryan, there is no war between us. But you have been critical of my refusal to take a stand against government mandates. Perhaps you do not want to go to war, but you do want to go into battle against governments and you have urged others to do likewise.
However, for those of you who are willing to stick around, to hear me out, to read my posts from time to time even if you disagree with me, well, thank you. Thank you for giving me an ear, despite any reservations you may have. Now, next time I write, I’ll do my best to make it worth your while.
I have gained some insight into how your mind works. In many ways I see you as an equal. All things considered, I do not consider myself a better human being than you. I just think that in a few areas I have made better decisions than you and come to better conclusions than you. Do you feel the same way about me?
And no, Bryan, I am not willing to stick around. I have read a significant amount of your writing and I have concluded that it is no longer worth my while. There are many writers that I think are more worthy of my time than you and you should not feel insulted. It is more about being attracted to them than rejecting you. And let me say one more time that I hope you thrive.
Bryan accepted my invitation to continue a written dialogue on the Letter platform.
Somehow the sequence of letters was reversed and we don't how this happened. Letter #2 should be Letter #1 and Letter #1 should be Letter #2. I contacted Support but got no response. It seems that this platform is, unfortunately, dying. I thought it had great potential.
And somehow the Platform started a new Conversation whereas it was my intention for On Books to be Letter #3. So this seems to be a mess with no way to clean it up, although I have contacted Support a second time. To date, Bryan has not replied to my latest Letter.